ANTONY JOHNSTON: Andrew, Alasdair, you both collect original comic art. I don't, generally - partly from lack of funds, but also because I'm not bothered by it. As long as I have the published comic, I'm quite happy to look at the published page. So what is it that makes people who have already spent a not-insignificant amount of money on a comic book and already own the published page, think about spending an awful lot more money on what is essentially an unfinished piece?

ALASDAIR WATSON: It looks really nice on my wall. I cannot tear a page out of my copy of FROM HELL and stick it on my wall and have it look half as nice as the page of Eddie Campbell art that's... well, in my drawer, at the minute. I haven't got round to buying the frame.

JOHNSTON: Do you buy movie posters? Do you hang movie posters on your wall?

WATSON: I used to. I don't anymore.

JOHNSTON: What about stills from movies? People go around buying film cels...

WATSON: If people want to have that on their wall...

JOHNSTON: Yeah, but you don't. Yet you like movies just as much as you like comics.

WATSON: Yeah, but not in the same way. Movies are moving pictures. If I could find a way to hang a particularly well-framed shot on my wall...

ANDREW WHEELER: Is there a difference in your appreciation of comics as compared to your appreciation for movies?

WATSON: Yes. A really nice piece of comic art speaks to me more. I get the sense when I'm looking at a page of comics art that that's someone's personal vision. I've got two pieces of art hanging on my wall, prints of Alan Moore's CD covers, but I got a real sense of the work, and of both Alan Moore and the artist, John Coulthart, more than I would from, say, Bryan Singer's X-MEN. I'm sure I could pick out shots that I like, but someone's written the screenplay, then you've got all the actors bringing their performances, you've got Singer...

JOHNSTON: So comics is a small focused effort rather than a large collaborative effort? And that makes it more intimate for you?

WATSON: Yeah. I get some sense of what Bryan Singer is trying to get across, but not who Bryan Singer is.

JOHNSTON: Do you really get a sense of who Mike Oeming is from a piece of POWERS artwork?

WATSON: If I'd read more of his work, perhaps I would. I'm appalling at remembering the names of actors and directors, but comics is the thing I'm a fan of, and I do remember comic artists and comic writers. I develop a sense of who they are through their body of work. Alan Moore says in THE EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE that he likes the people who buy his work because it's him doing it. While he doesn't hear much back from his audience directly, he feels he's communicating with them on an extended basis. I think that's true from the fan's end as well.

JOHNSTON: So it goes back to this feeling of involvement that a lot of comic fans get?

'As long as I have the comic, I'm happy to look at the published page.' WATSON: Yes. It's not just that. The reason I would buy the page of art is because it'll look really nice on my wall. I bought the page from FROM HELL because it's one of my favourite comic books ever. I wanted to be able to say that I have a page from FROM HELL. And the reasons FROM HELL is one of my favourite comics is because the art is fantastic, and that's why I want a page of it on my wall.

WHEELER: I'm not sure that your reasons for buying art relate to my reasons. For me, a large part of it is simply... I don't know, nesting instinct? Liking to have the things I like around me? I don't think the piece of Michael Avon Oeming art that hangs on my sitting room wall speaks to me of Oeming. It speaks to me of POWERS. I bought that particular page, from issue #34, because it's this beautiful single image of this 1950s hero tossing a car at some gangsters, and it speaks to me of the things I'm interested in about comics. It's pulpy; it's about POWERS as a history of the superhero. It represents the comic well, it's a good example of what Oeming's strengths are. The other two pages on that wall... I love Duncan Fegredo, so I want to own a piece of his art because aesthetically I think he's terrific. Same with Edvin Biukovic. There's not a lot of Biukovic art in the world. There is never going to be any more Edvin Biukovic art in the world.

JOHNSTON: The Biukovic thing I can understand, moreso.

WHEELER: Well, these other guys will die eventually too.

JOHNSTON: Yes, but Fegredo has produced 5000 times as much work as Edvin Biukovic ever did. I think they are all lovely pieces of art, but I still don't feel the compulsion to buy original art that I know many comics fans do.

WATSON: I wouldn't say it's a compulsion. I don't own as many pieces of art as Andrew does, but what Andrew's saying, I would agree with. I think it is about liking a piece of art and wanting it on your wall.

JOHNSTON: You could say the same thing about paintings, movie stills... why not buy a print of the cover?

WHEELER: In many cases there are covers I would love to have as prints. I wish there were someone in the business of doing that.

WATSON: Prints would generally be just as good, to me. There are certain pieces I would still want to own, like the FROM HELL piece, but I've got John McCrea art, and I was very happy to give him some money, but I'd be just as happy to have a print. Whereas, Andrew, the piece of McCrea art you have, you'd probably rather have the original art.

WHEELER: Yes. The piece I have is the kiss between Apollo and Midnighter that was cut from the JENNY SPARKS mini series. That was the first piece of art I got, and maybe I would never have started on this slippery slope if it weren't for that.

JOHNSTON: Actually, that was bought for you.

WHEELER: Exactly. I never imagined myself being someone who would buy art, even though the longer I've been reading comics, the more I've become an art person. When I started reading comics, I wasn't about art, I was about story. Nowadays I value the art so much more than I used to, and as the years go by, it's become something I'm fascinated by. And I love good comic art. I've always been a fan of commercial art - I love Norman Rockwell, Alfons Mucha. Art created for commerce is often, design-wise, some of the most vibrant and interesting artwork in the 20th century.

JOHNSTON: Do you think it goes back to that old axiom about working within restrictions? If you have restrictions to work within, you'll find ways to break them down and come up with something more inventive?

WHEELER: Yeah. And you have to speak to your audience in a different way. You have to try to be populist without being cheap. Robert McGinnis, the paperback pulp cover artist; I adore his work. I think it's terrific. I'd love to have prints of his work hanging on my wall.

JOHNSTON: Do you think it's a lack of self-indulgence that's one of the things that appeals to you about that sort of art? Because it's commercial, there's literally very little time for self-indulgence.

WHEELER: Possibly. What I like is to find commercial artists who are still truly artists. They're doing it commercially, but that doesn't mean that they're cheapening themselves. There's no shame to these people. I do love that, for an artist to be willing to be commercially motivated and not be crap. Let's face it, one of the big problems with comics is that people do it for the money, and have no appreciation for the art.

'I wouldn't say it's a compulsion. There are certain pieces I want to own.' JOHNSTON: I don't think it's fair to say that anyone in comics is doing it just for the money. I don't think anyone gets into comics without having a deep love of comics, because there's not much money in it.

WHEELER: Well, maybe they do it because they'd rather make money doing something they enjoy, than working in a Kwik-E-Mart. That's not a real place, is it? Wal-Mart.

JOHNSTON: That doesn't necessarily cheapen them.

WHEELER: No, but that doesn't mean they're doing it as artists.

JOHNSTON: Oh, right. It's a better way of making a living than sweeping the streets?

WHEELER: Yeah. Even though they're not going to make their fortune doing comics, they probably weren't going to make a fortune anyway. They're not Bill Gates, let's face it.

JOHNSTON: I'm not sure whether I'd paint with such a broad brush on that one, but I can see where you're coming from.

WHEELER: But like I say, I never meant to become a collector of comic art, but since getting that McCrea page with the cut kiss... last year alone I acquired most of my comic art.

JOHNSTON: So what happened with that page of John McCrea art? Did you suddenly find your life richer for having it? I don't mean that in a patronising way...

WHEELER: I did like having a piece of real comic art hanging on my wall. I went to Lee Atchison's house last year, where she has all these gorgeous painted Duncan Fegredo LUCIFER covers hanging on her wall...

JOHNSTON: Including my personal favourite, where he's pulling open his coat, and the faces are staring out.

WHEELER: And I've been to other houses - your house, indeed, has an awful lot of original art and/or prints on the wall...

JOHNSTON: And none of it's mine.

WHEELER: And I think it's a nice way to decorate your house if you appreciate what's behind the art. If you appreciate the artist, if you can speak at all intelligently about the artist, if you can talk intelligently about the medium and have a passion for the medium - and I do - then it makes sense to declare your allegiance by, you know, painting your walls, putting up your peacock feathers.

JOHNSTON: Your gang colours.

WHEELER: Exactly. I am a Crip, and this page of Edvin Biukovic goes out to my homies.

JOHNSTON: So would you rather have that Edvin Biukovic page than a print of Damian Hurst, for example?

WHEELER: Certainly more than Damian Hirst.

JOHNSTON: Well, or a Hockney, say. If we're talking about it in terms of actual room-decorating pieces of art?

WHEELER: Well, in a large room, most comic art isn't big enough to decorate. I need three pieces hanging side-by-side to fill a wall.

JOHNSTON: There is a lot of comic art in my lounge, and it's all Marcia's, not mine, but it is very nice to look at. There's a lovely colour John Van Fleet print above the mantelpiece, a limited edition print called Big Red, and I'd much rather have that above the fireplace than a Constable or a Hockney.

WHEELER: It's art that you love. Why buy a print of something just because it's pretty when you can buy a print of something that looks good and means something to you? Otherwise it's like going to a department store and buying one of those awful mass-produced paintings of the horses running through the surf.

JOHNSTON: So we're moving away from the notion of a rapport, towards more of an art appreciation.

'If you have a passion for comics, then it makes sense to declare your allegiance.' WATSON: The notion of involvement is not my major reason for buying art. These are beautiful objects that speak to me. If I could get them as prints and cheaper, I would, but I can't, so I'll do what I have to do.

JOHNSTON: I have to admit, if I could spend five pounds on a poster of artwork, I'd probably have a lot more.

WHEELER: The BATMAN/SUPERMAN ADVENTURES print that I have, that wasn't too expensive. About twenty quid for a page so big that I can't actually hang it. And I don't actually care about Superman or Batman or the animated series, but I really like that piece of art, and I like Bruce Timm's style better than I like any of the characters he's worked with. As for the other things I surround myself with... I do have a lot of action figures, but they sit in a box in the attic. I bought them because I wanted them around me, and then I decided they looked too cheap and plastic. I think Fin Fang Foom is still around somewhere, and Quicksilver stands on my desk. Otherwise, I have a HEROBEAR beanie on top of my computer, a SPIRIT bust and a Christian Walker bust next to my DOC SAVAGE: MAN OF BRONZE maquette, and that's pretty much it for memorabilia. I'd probably have more if I had an office.

JOHNSTON: But that's gone by the wayside now, and you're just concentrating more on the art?

WHEELER: No, I think if I saw a piece I liked, I would buy it. I visited the home of Randy Bowen, of Bowen Collectibles, while I was in Portland, and his house is extraordinary. I went in to his workshop and saw shelves and shelves of busts. I'd never really thought about busts, and never been someone that liked them. You see them in Previews, and they look tacky and horrible. But when you actually see them physically, you think, well I quite like that one; I would definitely be interested in having that one, if it didn't cost me eighty dollars. People surround themselves with things that speak to them and inspire them, and comic geeks love comics crap.

WATSON: I wouldn't surround myself with things like busts, because I do like having one-of-a-kind pieces. There are photographers I like, or friends I've bought pieces by. I like very limited editions, much smaller runs than most busts.

WHEELER: You can get stuff like that at conventions, quite often. Things like limited edition sketchbooks. Scott Morse produced a book called SHIRT AND PANTS, of which there was a limited run of something like 45, so I bought one for my nephew's christening present. Antony, you've written comics. Do you not want a page of the art from the comics you've done? I suppose not. Not with the artists you've worked with...

JOHNSTON: Oooh! Let the record show, I am not punching Andrew right now, as is my right.

WHEELER: No, I'm kidding! I like most of your artists. I love Mike Hawthorne.

JOHNSTON: I've been given a few pieces of artwork by the artists I've worked with. And I love it. Mike Hawthorne, every time he writes to me, gives me another sketch. It's lovely. But I don't feel the compulsion to go out and buy it. I'm quite happy to have the finished work in my hands.

WHEELER: Even with conventions, which is another manifestation of this greater comics culture, you don't go to conventions for the craic, you go for the business.

WATSON: I go for the craic.

JOHNSTON: Yeah, that's right, I don't.

WHEELER: And would you not go to conventions otherwise?

JOHNSTON: Well, I did do, when I was younger, and I probably would do, if I were still younger, if that makes any sense.

WHEELER: No, that doesn't make any sense.

JOHNSTON: I love meeting creators. Forget about the professional standpoint; I just love meeting and talking with creators. Conventions, by and large, aren't actually good places to do that, so I don't go with that aim in mind. I prefer catching them in the bar, when they actually might want to talk, rather than when they're behind a table dealing with fifty people who all want them to sign a comic, which is what they're there for, and their time is better spent serving those people than spending five minutes gassing to me.

WATSON: For me, the convention experience is in the bar.

JOHNSTON: But for a lot of fans, it isn't. A lot of fans don't like sitting in the bar, or are too young to spend time in an American bar.

WATSON: That's their problem, not mine.

JOHNSTON: That's kind of where the divide is, for me. I love meeting and talking to creators, but I don't feel the compulsion to buy artwork or action figures or whatever. I would rather buy the books, and spend the limited money I could spend on artwork on more of their books. And show my appreciation by buying them a drink and spending five minutes chatting to them and telling them how much I liked their work.

WHEELER: I always go to conventions under the guise of being a journalist, which makes it so much easier to bear. Then you don't feel embarrassed or self-conscious about it.

JOHNSTON: I go under the guise of a professional, now, which also makes it much easier to bear, in my opinion.

WATSON: I like to spend time in the convention bar. Talking to people. The notion of spending time on the convention floor doesn't appeal to me. I do it briefly, to see if there's anything interesting.

WHEELER: I understand why people want to go to conventions. Because they do want to feel part of something, they want to feel that they belong, and that they're getting something back from it.

JOHNSTON: When I was younger, and there was a signing involving 2000AD creators, or CRISIS or DEADLINE creators, I was there like a shot, because, yeah, I wanted to feel like part of it. Just reading the comics made you feel like part of some exclusive little club, and you wanted to meet these people who we regarded as creative geniuses.

WHEELER: We can be very snooty about it, because the whole speculator boom has made the concept of the 'collector' a bad word, but actually, for a lot of people, comics is a hobby. It's a pastime. And collecting is what you do, and a collection is what you have, and it's nothing to do with the speculator, and it's everything to do with being a fan, or a geek, or whatever word you want to use.

JOHNSTON: Much like people will collect all the STAR TREK DVDs, for example.

WHEELER: Yeah. And it's not the great evil that speculating is. It's not the same thing at all.

JOHNSTON: No. Collecting and speculating probably should be separated. Maybe that's a bit of a misconception that's been perpetrated.

WHEELER: I think we have this perception of the comic reader-as-collector being an awful thing. It's not an awful thing. That there aren't more people who are casual readers is an awful thing, but you don't shoot the guys who are reading the comics. You shouldn't bitch about the people who are already going in to the shops and paying their money. I wish people would get some perspective on that score. There's nothing wrong with being a fan.

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